Cococombo ! [King Of Swiss Regional Paris 45 players 6/1 ove 1.0

• Versiones
• 1.0

I have no idea what to say: bravo! :D

Can you tell us more about how did you lose your top 16 match? And how do you tipiccalh close your games instead? Is it usually a single big Viper challenge?

Wonderful deck and I am speechless

Hi! I'm happy you managed to build a more competitive version. Last of the Giants is a huge addition and solves us a lot of problems. Good idea. I feel however, that once the surprise factor is gone and other players get used to this deck it's a lot harder to win with it. To play against us they trully have to renounce playing their normal game and just concentrate in blocking the combo, using whatever tools are available to them. All house have some key cards that destroy the combination. Also, Long Plan grants us very valuable income in the combo turn, but we depend on our rival to attack us. If they know well the list they will renounce to it, and we will be unable to reach enough gold in the castle black turn. Maybe Ranger's Cache will be a safer option. In any case, I like your list.

Genius. Like always Congrats dude!!!

Would this not need Weapons at the Door against NW?

Hmm... no, I am dumb - needs the crown to get the strength. But... that means on your combo turn against NW you basically need to win initiative to stand a chance?

So, if someone goes second and plays a milk or a craven on the crucial round...

It falls apart? :)

Unless you can also win a challenge with a Rattleshirts present in the same round, before the Viper, I guess.

(realized you had already written about the weaknesses, my bad.)

@Loras TyrellI did go 1s when i should have gone 2nd, + some small mistake the turn before forgetting to get some gold, who would allow me too play high septon in marshalling and not get kneel. And yeah basicaly its only one big turn, only 1 match where i did not see one of the event i did win in 2 turn with 2 challenge at 16str and uo (thaks to varys before then syrio and intimidate).

@MatamagosI dont really think its that weaker even knwowing the deck. In fact, every did know what i was doing since round 4, and even doing their best to stop the combo it was not enough (going to muligan good hand against other deck to get bran/winterfell/cait/treach/nightmare/hj). Long plan doesnt really rely on your opponent challenge, more on tower of the sun... there is 7 phase so you could get a safe 11 income, then 3 from plot/draw/marshal on the annals of castle + 4 income of the plot... already 18 gold not counting challenge loose and dornishman wife. (lets say u did play event only 5 phase, its still 16 without the other things)

@ZaramisYeah good point but : milk is very easy to remove, jump rattleshit and its easy to win the chal and remove the milk. Craven on other is more annoying, thats why having 2 kingsroad is very key to get that sweet 6 init (or too play a plot with big init, like the 3/8/1). And before if they do mil/pow u can remove it with viper eyes and they need to topdeck another (who is not unlikely, but still). So yeah, its annoying but there is way to play arround.

@brainu Good job piloting the deck, I know for a fact it can be very exhausting. Like I told you back in Paris, I played a very similar version before TLotG release. It is actually so similar that the only difference besides the TLotG / neutral-char package instead of Ghaston Grey (which was mandatory before, and bad now :)) are : Isle of Ravens, and Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken, and building order (played 3/8/1 instead). I understand Isle and UUU, but I would probably play 2x Great hall instead, making it easier to kill on 3/8/1 when needed. Anyway, nice job !

Really curious, why no doran's game? is it just not necessary? I'm thinking of the issue when Treachery hits on one of the big challenges, so there would be an alternate way to get power.

do you see making room for Secret Schemes, or are you trying to win before this would be a good option?

I love the deck! How about using Snowed Under instead of Building Orders. I guess you are always behind on power so you can always decide if you want to first or second.

I have good success with the previous version. I'll try this for sure now :). To bad I can't have multiple decs with similar cards :(.

I run almost all of these cards in another NW gathers deck.

After second look I noticed you dropped Confiscation. Why? I think it is really important for the deck. What happens if on the key turns or before them you get Frozen Solided? It may not seem popular card but it makes the cut more and more.

Congrats on the win, but I think this deck is actively destructive to the game. I stopped playing Netrunner due to decks like this. They are completely non-interactive and don't resemble the actual game that people bought and loved in the core set. In my opinion, Netrunner has degenerated into two people sitting across from each other trying to make their combo go off, regardless of what their opponent does. This is the first deck for GoT that brings back the dread of facing an opponent masterbating with their cards while I try to play GoT. I thought I left that behind with Netrunner.

It's not that the cards are illegal. It's not that I need to 'git gud'. It's that this deck does not have (or even aspire to) any aspect of the back and forth that creates an enjoyable experience of playing GoT. Even the most NPE NW Wall deck has elements on the board I can attack or try to subvert. This deck doesn't have that.

If I sat down against someone playing this deck. I would spend my mental energy insulting them trying to replicate the NPE they are creating for me. I would normally just walk away but I don't want that person to do well for bringing this deck to a tournament. I want them to be mentally drained and discouraged from bringing a deck like this to a tournament. Decks like this kill games, look at how fast Netrunner lost popularity.

I'm not sure what cards to ban or restrict to prevent this deck from becoming a 'thing' but I hope FFG gets on it quickly. Minimum Character requirement for decks, maybe? I know there are counters that each faction has (but rarely plays), but the issue again is that this deck tries to eliminate the very thing that makes GoT fun, interacting with the other player. Even if you counter it, you still had to spend your precious free time trying to stop an opponent from successfully masterbating through the rules of a game you used to enjoy.

Congrats to @Matamagos and @brainu for making this deck. I totally understand and appreciate the challenge of the having an idea for a deck and seeing if it can work. But now that we know it works, can we all just make a mental note and never play this deck again?

@WreckoJust so you're not alone on this, i wanted to agree and mirror this sentiment, i flat out refuse decks that don't involve interactive play. While it's an impressive find it's not fun to play with or against, it's a destructive deck for the meta among with some other unfortunate decks, it lies in parts with the plot annals that is taking away even defense to go against your hand. Not because it's strong, because it goes against everything that makes GoT 2nd Ed. a fun game to play.

I am a very competitive person but in this case i encourage people not to bring decks like this our tournaments, i dont want to see this playstyle promoted in any way or form.

@Lancezh players are most probably going to bring these kinds of decks until FFG does something about them.

@at.keranov not to our tournaments they are not. People play here competitively 100% cancerfree. It depends on the meta i guess.

@Wrecko If I sat down against someone playing this deck. I would spend my mental energy insulting them trying to replicate the NPE they are creating for me. I would normally just walk away but I don't want that person to do well for bringing this deck to a tournament. I want them to be mentally drained and discouraged from bringing a deck like this to a tournament.

Just curious what your name is so i can instant call judge over?

So much salt :D

@Bluebird503 Go ahead. You will probably make me feel good when I see your baby rage. :D

Fantastic! (Cue 9th Doctor voice)

Anyway, I personally love that something like this exists at the moment! It's inventive, intriguing, and appears to take very careful piloting.

Will it be bad for the metagame at large? Who knows. We hardly have enough of a sample size to say yet. Is it worth keeping our collective eyes on? Sure. But for the moment, I love it.

@Bluebird503You are correct to note that I can't be insulting people in a tournament. That said, I have a question and a quote for you:

• Can you tell me how you think this conversation with a judge will go?
• “Charm is the ability to insult people without offending them; nerdiness the reverse” - Nassim Taleb. This deck is extremely nerdy. I can be nerdy as well, as can the rest of your opponents in a tournament.

@Kennon- I agree that it is inventive and intriguing and full marks for @Matamagosand @brainu for getting this deck to a tournament level. I want to be clear that I hold them in high esteem for being able to build something totally different from other decks. I also think this deck is actively destructive to the game.

I think its the same vein as the builder deck. A strong low inter action deck that has some good silver bullet answers in plots. (political disaster for the builders, Supporting the faith, forgotten plans, and foritified position for this one.) because of how counterable it is I don't think it will ruin the game forever. But man will I be salty if I have to run supporting the faith.

Insulting people or being a dickhead is more destructive than anything... "cancerfree" "play competitively" : pick one. Otherwise i hope too see a RL soon in the future and agree with you wrecko.

What FFG did well was that they did recruit a large part of the vocal, high profile version 1 players as playtesters. They playtest like crap, because plain broken shit slips through all the time. The playetesters cannot say weather they are incompetent in playtesting or if FGG ignores them because they are now under a NDA agreement (thats the genius part of it). We have previously seen First Snow of Winter alter the meta (player created card) which fueled the lanni winter/dragon murder decks for the 1st year, then we have the Lanni Rains again fueling Lanni decks, another player created card and now this wonder.... Lets face it FFG is running the same shit as version 1, ie this is the beta test for AGOT version 3 not a tested game. They have forgotten the lesson they applied earlier using limits on abilities....as soon as you got unlimited uses per phase/turn you get shit like this. I find it amazing that they managed to remember it for about a year and ooops....here we go again. They also shown that they do not care to be warden of the game and nurture a healthy meta using restricted lists or banning broken cards. Why should they, they have a new shiny toy coming soon.......it will be better. Promise!

@brainu Don't get me wrong. This is a very creative deck and cudos for making it. The problem is that in a playtested game this deck should not be possible because it creates a solo adventure.

So I had been playing with @Matamagos version, and similarly to @brainuI had included long plan, cut all of the 1x, increased the viper eyes count...

But what I didn't do is include the giants varys combo, and man does it really pull this deck up a level.

So I ran this at the Bristol regional (with some tweaks - you'll see some wildling scouts in the stream matches, for example) and won the event at 8-1. Loss was to NW Rains that saw an early wall and I didn't see enough nightmares to slow it down. Plus this was my meta mate @channeldelibird aka Janky George Ankers, who had helped me test this deck multiple times, so he knew the drill.

So thanks to both guys who worked on the design of this deck, I find it incredibly interesting and think that it probably shouldn't exist.

Not much point in me publishing my list as it is basically the same as this one, and the tournament report would be pretty boring

I'm very surprised by many of the comments here. Instead of celebrating a deck that works with 11 characters in it, we are talking if this is NPE or not.

Should I remind you that to make this work ( and create this deck) isn't an easy work? In general, making any deck that doesn't play your standard AGoT 2.0 game - I Gain XX gold, I play big dudes with Renown + effect, I do some challenges and win , is tough work.

To what I know, this is actually close to a Martell deck you had in 1.0. So one more reason for veterans to celebrate (cancer or not ).

So to the creators, you have my most heart-welcomed respect, thumbs up (y)

Btw this reminds of the Eggs Deck in MTG ... not quite there, but similar playstyle ... :D

@DydraThe playstyle is actually extremely close to a storm deck : you are trying to accumulate a critical mass of ressources in order to play THE big turn. Add some discard, some cards to counter opponent's disrupt, and you get a deck that has been a staple in the MtG Legacy environnement for years.

@Dydra Yeah unbelievable and unconcievable huh. It's not like 3 different people explained in detail why they think it's not just something to celebrate, eventhough they also said exactly that. Noone wants to take anything away, it's not just about whining and we're not just idiots who dont know how to play the game. GoT is about Interactivity, i could repeat it for a forth time or you have the courtesy and read up ahead again. You don't have to agree with the sentiment but don't act like you wouldn't understand and are "surprised". There's no question this deck is when being played just that: Masturbation for the guy who plays it and the other can watch. You won't have to make a single decision most of the time that involves the main phase of the game which are the challenges. Imagine 2 people playing against each other with this deck. "Fun" huh ? The Annals of Castle Black was a big mistake, not becose it's strong or "tough to play", it recurses cards you can't defend against through anything that's already in the game, and decks like this exploit it to the fullest. The deckcreator is not to blame, it's the designers that decided this is somewhat ok, also having cards that double something instead of fixed effects are a recipe for disaster..

Pretty much everything is/ has been complained about as a negative play experience.

Tywin/ chud/ Roseroad setup. NPE Catelyn and Winterfell. NPE Baratheon kneeling your guys. NPE Greyjoy land kill/ saves. NPE The Wall. NPE Targaryen Burn. NPE This deck. NPE Anything that wins. NPE

I can't imagine a greater hell than every good deck being completely "fair". That's a lot of Tyrell on Tyrell character stalls.

@JimmyDAll these afromentioned decks can be played against more or less, Intriguechallenges do affect them and there's still some sort of back and forth happening, thats the difference. It's not about being to strong, it's about being non interactive.

@Lancezh Every deck can be non-interactive. "I let all of your challenges UO. I do all of my challenges and don't bother about what you are doing." can always be your mentality, especially if you have Burning on the Sand. Also, intrigue challenges can affect every deck. Discard his Varys or Viper from 2x intrigue with Lannister each turn, and you have a chance of winning the game before/on turn 4, or even disable him from playing TRV. Play Baratheon and you have a chance of seeing his hand and discarding the good stuff (Seen In Flames Ruby of R'hllor Melisandre (GtR)). So I'm with @JimmyD on this one. Every deck can be NPE if you have the specific (sorry, but I call it "whining") mentality.

@at.keranov I dont even know what to reply anymore, if you don't see the difference from decks like this to literally everything else then i'm at loss for words.

@at.keranov @Wrecko Yeah its not rage. I play to win, gonna bring the best deck regardless of what it is. If you cross a line a judge will be called and I'll smile and go get lunch :).

Sorry you got so much crap over this amazing deck, some people just don't appreciate greatness.