NoEcons4U (King of Swiss, 29 Player Brighton Charity Joust T

Simulador de robo
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Derivado de
Ninguno. Éste es un mazo hecho de cero.
Inspiración para
NoEcons4U v2 - King of Swiss - 39 Player Singapore Open 12 6 19 1.0
No Funny Stuff: Ep4 - Greyjoy Kings of Winter 2 1 0 1.0

jcwamma 2842

My thinking when making this deck was that I wanted to create something that had definitive positive match-ups against the three decks everyone seems to be complaining about at the moment - 'Clock' decks, Tinder Marge decks, and Lanni Jumpers - while also being a coherent strong build against other decks.

To that end, I knew location destruction was going to be important for the deck, being strong as it is against clock decks (...all their win conditions), and Lanni Jumpers (Harrenhal). However, against most normal decks, they have no fancy locations... but they do have economy. Roseroads, Kingsroads, Ocean Roads. So, choke it is then.

Against Margaery, the key cards are the double Barring the Gates, which is also fantastic in the Lannister match-up. Do not sleep on this card, it hoses so many things - Here to Serve, Margaery, Ghosts of Harrenhal, Lanni jumper tech, any Ambush at all, Arianne... It ruins a lot of fun for the opponent, in short. Nightmares is also terrific in this match-up, for letting you surprise your opponent with the ability to mil challenge them after all - and as a cherry on top, Nightmares is also fantastic for blanking economy cards, either to just aid the general choking effort or to then let you discard them with Newly Made Lord.

These facts come together to make choke both a coherent theme that can present a challenge for any deck and also a specifically tough match-up for those three important "must answer" decks.

There are other choices made beyond that of course, but in the interests of brevity I'll stop here. If anyone has any questions I'm happy to answer them.

Quick TR: Round One: Win Vs Greyjoy Stag (Seemed like mostly a false banner) Round Two: Win Vs Targ Fealty Round Three: Win Vs Night's Watch Lion (A mean aggro build we call "Half-man, Half-hand") Round Four: Win Vs Tyrell Wolf (Tinder Marge deck) Round Five: Win Vs Bara Fealty (traditional dominance build) My opponents in rounds 2, 3, 4 and 5 all made the cut, so despite the somewhat janky nature of the tournament I absolutely did not have an easy ride here! Top 8: Loss Vs Night's Watch Lion (same one as before - this was the eventual winner)

25 comentarios

jcwamma 2842

One thing I forgot to mention in the initial write-up was how important the 3x PttT and 3x WDNS are to the point of this deck - in the 6 games on the day I got at least one of them off turn one in four games, and in 2 of the games I got to use both turn one to establish complete dominance over the game from the off. It is absolutely mean to play against, in all the right ways.

Uncle_cthulu 1

If Dagmar couldn't make it here........

WinterNite 1

Looks like one hell of deck, and you even managed to beat my worst nightmare when playing GJ: Baratheons! Congrats on beating Swiss!

What sort of set up do you usually look for? For a Winter deck, I notice you run really high cost characters, more so than I would like in a Winter deck. Did you ever feel economy was a huge issue, especially since you run both Euron and King Balon?

Also, what was your playstyle for each plot? Destroy their economy as much as possible and slowly choke them?

sdxbbs 1

hi and gratz for your win ! would you change anything to the deck after the tournament ?

HidaHayabusa 73

'Half-man,half-hand'? I am intrigued. Please share.

Von Wibble 191

I'm guessing its clansman Tyrion for claim raising combined with Qhorin for "claim raising".

jcwamma 2842

@Uncle_cthuluDagmer's obviously not the best, but I actually think he's even worse here than normal because I'm running so many cards that do a similar thing to him already. On the rare occasions he's worthwhile I think it's as a splashy one-of that's off-theme and gives a different thing for the opponents to worry about.

@WinterNite setups were very variable, honestly. One of the causes of defeat in the top 8 was a poor one, so generally I kept something if I was worried that the mulligan was likely to be even worse. Of course, if you can get a setup of something Balon/Euron and a chud with econ (or, if you aren't worried about Marched, with an Iron Mines), that's ideal since it's one of the best ways to actually get them out. The econ was never a huge issue just because there are quite a lot of cheap characters. If you get Euron out (either through setup or A Noble Cause) he'll typically provide you the economy you need to get out everyone else out; if not, it can be tough to afford him but if you save your ANC until you get Balon or Euron, typically whichever one you get out will impact the board enough. Lastly on playstyle, it differed but typically if I could take out two permanent limiteds in the first round or two, that'd unsettle their economy enough that I could then follow with a flurry of winter plots; if not, try to use the plots to create a lighter choke with which to leverage the board state.

@sdxbbsI'd think about cutting Seal and Victarion for cheaper characters (a couple of Northern Refugees maybe?) to help improve setups. Seal was great in one game but sat in my hand as a useless card a couple of times, and Victarion, while great, is very expensive while lacking the impact of my 7-drops - kinda a worst of both worlds deal.

@HidaHayabusa``@Von Wibble it's not my deck to share and is being run at Batalla, so I won't confirm. But as its owner runs a podcast, I'd expect the list to be publicly available before long!

TrueSokles 47

Why not coreBalon??

jcwamma 2842

@TrueSokles core Balon is great for getting unopposed, but if you don't care about unopposed then the King Balon is far superior for giving you an extra challenge with the same body. With only three triggers in the entire deck that care about unopposed rather than the usual Great Kraken, Reader and the like, core Balon just doesn't pull his weight for me. If I need unopposed then between the choke and First Snow I can force it either way.

TrueSokles 47

And one more btw, no problems with first snow and own board?? There are not that many big guys here

jcwamma 2842

@TrueSoklesFirst Snow has the potential to backfire, but due to this deck's tendency to get a strong start, if it would backfire I should either be able to close before plot 7 or I'm losing anyway. On the flipside, it has complete blowout potential in some match-ups, so it justifies its spot. I do still have 16 characters at cost 4+, so it doesn't backfire as often as you might worry.

Req 7

Hi, I would like to have your opinion on a few cards: -Wildling Bandit (3x seems a lot, did they work in this deck even if you're choking the opponent's economy?) -Ygritte (did you ever see her/get stealth on her?) -Relentless assault (did it work? Were you planning on using it on the 2 claim turn?)

WinterNite 1

@jcwamma

Thanks for the reply! Really inspired by your deck to try something different for GJ (especially King Balon)

A few more things I'm curious about:

The deck excels at controlling the board state and keeping it small by burning economy and choking via Winter. What happens when you don't draw PTTT and WDNS? Would your first 1~2 plots be focused on using Winter plots to control the board or would you ANC to play Balon/Euron/both to get a better board state yourself? (TDLR; would you try to control their board more or build your own board)

Card choices:

How did Relentless Assault work for you? What was it's role throughout your games?

You mentioned that UO wasn't really the focus of the deck, but I noticed you included Syrio despite a large proportion of your characters already possessing military icons. Was the stealth really important despite not package Great Kraken into your deck?

Was 3x Newly Made Lord too much in your opinion, especially since it can't target economy?

Timmy 58

I am curious about the reasons why sea bitch didn't made the cut considering the main theme of the deck ?

donovan 74

Brilliant! Why did you end up playing confiscation?

taijibear 213

How readily would you use PTTT or We Do Not Sow on econ locations to reinforce the Winter choke against factions other than Tyrell/NW/Lannister?

jcwamma 2842

Apologies all for the delayed responses:

@ReqBandits weren't there for the effect so much as for being a 2 cost bicon, something Greyjoy lacks. If Greyjoy had an equivalent of House Dayne Knight, it would've taken the slot. I didn't see Ygritte once all day, sadly. Relentless Assault did fine work all day. The dream is of course getting it with Balon on the Famine turn (and I've since added Winds), but surprise extra challenges are rarely bad.

@WinterNiteif you don't see location hate early, it depends a lot on what you're facing - if you're up against an aggro or control deck, building your own board is more important; against other constructive decks it's better to try to attack them, because you're not going to win a construction race. With regards to Euron specifically, he's obviously never bad, but I'm more likely to play to get him on the table if my opponent is playing quality locations that I can use to impact the board. For Relentless Assault, see above. Syrio has actually since left the deck, he was a hangover from an earlier version that had a serious military icon deficiency and was there more for the mil icon granting than for the Stealth. 3x NML felt like exactly the right number. While he can't target traditional economy he's just SO good in the matches he's relevant in, and even when he isn't he still is at least a mid-range body to survive First Snow. Also don't overlook the power of Nightmares in conjunction with him - in one game, lacking a location hate event I blanked an opponent's Roseroad, discarded it with NML (since it was no longer limited) and took it for myself with Euron.

@Timmy Sea Bitch didn't make it because it was so rare that the opponent would have something worth stealing, what with everything else. It strikes me as the perfect card for a deck that isn't focusing on location hate already, letting you get a tempo swing on a key turn; for this deck though, I'm trying to establish a long-term location disparity, and I'd much rather run the likes of Newly Made Lord who is more pricey but won't give them the card back again!

@donovanI kinda defaulted to it because people love giving the big guys opium, essentially. I've actually cut it for Winds of Winter since the event, because in about 10 games with the deck the best card I discarded with it was a Bodyguard one time, and I discarded my own Risens with it twice!

@taijibearAll the time. All factions like playing with gold. Keeping the opponent from playing out much stuff is the easiest way to make the aggro bite, pretty much regardless of what faction the opponent runs (although obviously getting an Arbor or Harrenhal or whatever is ideal).

HidaHayabusa 73

Odd reasoning about not including Sea Bitch. It's so good against Iron Mines, and right now GJ is so popular, that I think it's just a matter of your local meta or your pairings that you didn't face GJ.

Twn2dn 223

James, I find the same thing with Sea Bitch. I like it right now as a 1x mostly because you can play it out, and depending on the opponent's build, it can have a strong deterrent effect or sometimes get you through a challenge you wouldn't otherwise win (steal Red Keep or something). That's said, I think its power level is overstated in a choke build that has more consistent location removal.

jcwamma 2842

@HidaHayabusa it's good against Iron Mines, but NML isn't any worse (also gets rid of it and can provide claimsoak) while being broadly better otherwise. As Dan said I can see it being used as a 1x, but any more is going to be seriously tough to fit in when non-character slots are so important.

Incidentally, it occurred to me that since this deck has featured in a couple of youtube videos, it'd be worth linking them here:

Round 5 of the Brighton Charity Joust: www.youtube.com

Top 8 (same event): www.youtube.com

Deck Talk (first video discussing the deck, second an example of it being used): www.youtube.com / www.youtube.com

SnakeEyes 10

Would you include Raiding the Bay of Ice now or is the location destruction just better then the bounce even at an easier cost and the pillage fun?

jcwamma 2842

@SnakeEyesthe problem is lack of Warships. If you retooled the deck to add another 3-4 Warships, it might be worth finding room for? Tough call though.

SnakeEyes 10

@jcwamma Fair point. I wasn't even thinking about the lack of Warships, must've just assumed there would be plenty "because Greyjoy" :p

How about the new Wildlings? Rattleshirt seems useful maybe instead of Syrio at the same cost slot, or Crow Killers instead of the Bandits since the Winter plots tend to have a lower reserve. Although since you're lowering the opponents reserve at the same time it may be a moot point... probably not happening often enough to justify the higher cost over the bandits.

jcwamma 2842

I've actually re-tooled the deck to remove Syrio already, but Rattleshirt should definitely go in as a 1x, yes. Crow Killers seem promising, but I'd want to see how widespread Retaliation is before I include them due to that difficult cost slot. They definitely have potential to be power houses here though.

DarkKnight76 260

How would you reconfigure the limited economy with the new greyjoy location in the guarding the realm pack? With that location does pillage become more of priority do you think?