Night Gathers ... 1.5

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Derivado de
Night Gathers... ( TOP 32 in Stahleck 2016 ) 49 28 56 1.0
Inspiración para
Night Gathers .... 2.0 12 11 9 1.0

Dydra 1467

Due to a popular demand, I'm posting the current list for my "Night Gathers ... (Stahleck TOP 32)" deck.

Generally the deck has been getting stronger, due to the quality of cards improving. The chapter packs ( up to "All Men are fools") have given some "silver bullets" to the deck that give it a lot of Flexibility. To mention a few:

  • Isle of Ravens gives you the much needed recycling of events as well as recovery if you get a key discard ( Varys, Night Gathers, etc. etc.)

  • Craster is value and you might want to increase to 2, depending on meta. Just be careful, because if you Craster a stolen board, you will return the characters to their owners (since nothing on the card specifies otherwise ;( )

  • Qhorin Halfhand can run away with games just purely based on Mil challenges. Will almost always trigger an immediate Valar, so use him to control the plot and setup for steals or w/e after.

  • The Frostfangs is pretty key new addition. Many people laughed at this card, however the utilization it has in my deck is incredible. There is no game where I'm not happy to see it. It allows you to trigger NG very easily (which makes Sam not that key anymore ), it can devastate opponents and it wasn't one game where I leave them with 8+ cards in their hands against 2 reserve or less. Opponent on Valar Morghulis turn cries with 1-2 of those mountain chains. You can easily sell it late game for 1 gold with Old Forest Hunter and the list goes on ... and on...

  • Battle of the Blackwater is another addition that I'm confident on. It requires a bit of playing around with it to get used to. However, 90% of my lost games were solely due to opponent drawing duplicates in clutch times. I say " NO MORE, Sirs! "

Few final notes. I've squeezed an Ygritte to see how she goes, so take this choice with a bit of a caviar to it. I STRONGLY recommend to test the new Winter plot Barring the Gates on place of Varys's Riddle / The First Snow of Winter/ Battle of the Blackwater ... I have a feeling it will be a nuclear bomb for the deck, just haven't been able to play around with it.

Expect my definitive 2.0 version once the Big Bad NW box comes out. =) Can't wait to get my hands on the cards and have time for some games!

41 comentarios

zack 126

Thanks for posting this updated list. I haven't yet tested the Night Gathers archetype (it now totally is! ;-)), but I'm looking forward to it.

Question: The First Snow of Winter seems a pretty significant difference with respect to the previous build, even if it was definitely available—and much played—back then. What's the rationale for that?

RoflRoy 22

Thanks for the update, this list will become even better with the NW box (in contrast to Wall decks) Battle of the Blackwater is an awesome plot for decks like this one and others using Varys and/or Valar to clear the board at some point.

Dydra 1467

@zack The Frostfangs happened =)

Right now if the opponent spits chuds on board, you bounce them back to their hand on -2 or -3 reserve (depending how many mountain chains you've given them control of ) ... then they discard like crazy and feed the discard pile.

At the same time you have decent 4 ( and 4+) drops that will most likely leave you with a body on the field.

I've had many games where people setup me 3-4 chuds .... yes please =)

Speaking from Deck Strategy PoV, the deck is getting very close to where I want to be - offer opposing win conditions. This is something which my decks in Netrunner were famous for and I'm very happy that I'm able to replicate this architecture in AGoT 2.0 as well.

What I mean is that my decks never run a single win condition, in fact they run win conditions that ask the opponent to do opposite actions in the same match/game. To put it in a simple perspective, if you look at my The Great Builders deck that I did with the Core Set version of the game applied this exact principle .

a) You kneel your characters to make UO and I kneel The Wall, Ok! I win dominance and trigger Chamber of the Painted Table.

b) You keep your forces occupied so rival me for dominance? Ok, I trigger The Wall.

Of course it was on a very limited front, because the card pool was so small, but I think you get the general idea.

The The First Snow of Winter and The Frostfangs are a staple in getting my "Night Gathers" aligned with this principle.

a) You aren't going to play chuds ( or other important characters) so I don't discard them? Ok, I will choke your reserve and force you to discard while leaving me an easier board to manage

b) You are going to spit out all of your cards on the board, so my reserve choke doesn't bother you? Ok, I will resset them into the discard.

The challenge was that in case b) you were relying solely on Varys and an opponent knows your deck, he would save all the control he had for him ( Treachery , Nightmares etc. ) at which point it was about who found which cards ( cuz u are running HoJ exactly for that ).

Now with the The Frostfangs and The First Snow of Winter you put another (and more reliable) answer for situation b) ... and the opponent has to play around both Varys and this, which complicates things significantly and lets you run away with the game.

With the Big NW Box, I hope that I'm able to finalize and make the polishing touches to further reinforce the current state and gameplay of the deck.

Kingnothing 1

What do you think about eastwatch by the sea? Reserve and Draw seems always good. Which cards do you expect at most from the NW Box? I guess Old Bear Mormont fits very good in a deck like NW KoW. Bowen Marsh and Cotter Pyke looks also very solid for me. But maybe they are too expansiv. Jon Snow? also great when you play wildlings but 7 gold? hm...

You play only 2 winter plots? I guess because of the reserve value?

Dydra 1467

@King Nothing I've been staying away from the spoilers ( except a few like the new Old Bear and the 2cost event), because I want to look at the picture when we know all the cards. Not work over a build for weeks prior lunch and then have it ruined/off-put because of 1 or 2 cards that weren't spoiled.

Eastwatch-by-the-Sea is something that I had in mind, however when putting the list together I left it out for some reason. Thank you for reminding me. :) I will slot it as a 1x on place of Sam / Thoren / Ygritte and would fit nicely I expect.

Battle of the Blackwater came in on place of the 3rd Winter plot ( Famine ). As I described in the initial deck, the main theme of the deck isn't money choke ... money choke is a support theme and I feel with 3x White Tree and 3x A Meager Contribution put out enough hindrance already.

If Barring the Gates proves to be working for the deck, as I suspect, the Winter count would be back to 3.

RoflRoy 22

How are you dealing with Tyrell? They have the money, the draw and tend to use removals themselves.

Aaron Groth 1

Thanks for the update. Agree with your thinking on having multiple ways of pulling of the win condition, more tools in the bag so to speak. Running the archetype in a banner of the wolf. Having a ton of fun with the extra tool of ward.

Dydra 1467

I did a couple of games today. Didn't put Ygritte into play but I had 1x Eastwatch-by-the-Sea on the place of 1x White Tree and it was amazing. I'm totally to go up to 2x, just the second copy will be on the place of some character.

Barring the Gates was on place of Riddle and it was okey. I was controlling the game well enough without it, but I wasn't unhappy to play it. I will run it through further testing.

@RoflRoy To be frank, I haven't met/played any decent Tyrell. If I do however, I imagine I will be looking for Throne on Setup against the Tyrell/Stag build. Against Fealty, or other mono green ... I expect/hope them to be hurt by running several duplicates and getting some dead draws. Also clearing board against their renown knights/dudes/ladies should help me stay close and win.

FredInRealLife 241

Have you experimented with the Stark banner version of this build? Ward is incredible in this deck. I feel like it hurts your opponents more than a -1 reserve from winter.

Dydra 1467

No, the deck would behave differently. Ward is a 4 cost drop, which is quite a lot for a deck like this. So on a Ward turn, you would play only that and perhaps a chud/building. I admit that eventually it could be cool to steal the only left dupe of your opponent or turn the tables in other situations, I don't see how the Wold Banner would reinforce the feed the discard pile ...

I'd even argue that The Frostfangs aren't a good fit in a Wolf banner, because the difference between -1 Reserve and -2 Reserve for 2 gold is quite noticeable.

Also, I imagine the plot choices would be different as well. =) action_johny can provide a lot more feedback on the Wolf Banner, but I wouldn't play it on place of this. It's up to personal style perhaps, but I can't imagine it being more consistent ( in terms of allowing the Night Gathers trigger with decent size of the discard ).

Hekks 1

Been playing it alot today and I like the deck! Thanks :)

Dydra 1467

@Hekks glad that it's working out for you mate =)

Erik_ 164

What do you think of Bridge of Skulls? I like its interaction with Qhorin. And the extra discard would probably help this deck.

Dydra 1467

@Erik_ one word - slots :D

Although it's very neat and setupable and u can get it for free with a Builder Bridge of Skulls ... atm I don't see if I'd cut a character for it, or if I'd put it on place of a 2nd Eastwatch-by-the-Sea.

You can try as 61st card, but I feel the bear bone minimum of character for the deck atm is 33.

Von Wibble 179

Tried this deck yesterday (with Eastwatch as a 61st card and Ygritte rmoeved for a 3rd Old Forest Hunter). Went 2-1, the only loss being to a fast rush that won just before I could use Varys in dom. Nice deck to pilot, and a good counter to winter decks since it can handle choke itself. Battle of Blackwater Bay worked well, letting me remove 2 dupes before using Varys and then playing out my opponents characters with dupes next turn. I'm going to look at making a variant running Banner of the Sun (where His Vipers Eyes and Bastard Daughters act as my discard mechanism - this also allows me to run Late Summer Feast which is a perfect plot for this deck other than the summer trait).

My only question is on the Wildling hordes. I get that they are a good source of pillage, but they seem very expensive, especially given that most of your econ plots will be used on turns where its the opponents cards you marshal out. Why them and not something a bit cheaper?

Hekks 1

@Dydra Would you mind writing some deck strategies vs. different factions and what to mulligan for? Ive only been playing for three weeks and im losing more than I should due to bad plays.

Dydra 1467

@Von Wibble Wildling Horde is amazing value for its cost. Obviously you get the pillage effect, however it's one of your very few options to put something on equal ( or higher) footing with the opponent bombs. If you have just small guys you can be gutted and left to die with a few simple fat chars and some target kill.

I feel they are irreplaceable in the deck for their function and are from the very few characters ( in this version ) that can be reduced by Ocean Road. If I could put in 3 more, I would. In fact, I had a Syrio Forel and 2 Hordes, then switched back to 3.

Let me know how it goes with the Sun Banner, just some thoughts from my side - 3x Bastard Daughter and 3x His Viper Eyes are 6 total discards, in case you draw all of them and trigger all of them. I can ( and have ) discarded more cards in 1 turn with the reserve hit. So, think carefully what else this Martell tech will bring you.

Also, as explained above, I'd be hesitant on the The Frostfangs as the value goes much lower without KoW agenda.

Dydra 1467

@Hekks I don't mind, ... it just could take me a while to put my thoughts into a guide type of writing. Maybe I should make some video on youtube, or record some matches?

If you've been playing the deck for entire 3 weeks and still lose that often, perhaps you can't adapt to all aspects of the deck? The deck isn't a one-trick pony. You don't need varys or night gathers each game. In the previous version they were pretty key, but right now you can get Qhorin out with some Mil icons and smash his board. It's much easier to trigger Night Gathers... and you have alternatives to feeding the discard pile than Varys. So be open minded and be flexible and the deck will reward you. ;)

Hekks 1

@Dydra No no no! You misunderstood, Ive only been playing AGoT for three weeks and the deck a couple of days! Yes please, I would totally watch that on Youtube! :)

Dydra 1467

@Hekks I'll work on something (although not sure 100% what it would be), but give the deck some time then. If you are a new player, this isn't exactly the go-to deck... It's a tempo deck and it requires you to know when is the time to do what, for which you need experience and match-up knowledge.

If you spend time and learn it, it will surely award you, just don't expect it to happen overnight. I'd say it took me about a month to tune and practice with the first version, as I had never played Varys before that in any of my decks and during that time you learn the match-ups as well.

Just as a general reference, I'd consider a good setup even a 3 card one, if I'm playing against Stark or Lanni and I draw Wildling Horde. Against Baratheons and Stag banners you want to dig for The Iron Throne.

Perhaps the perfect setup (not match specific ) for me would be a 4 drop, reducer, White tree and Roseroad ... That way I have enough economy to choke him while bouncing with The First Snow of Winter if he has several chuds + I can open Wraiths in Their Midst if he managed to setup some beefy guys and and economy ( i.e. Tywin, Chud and Roseroad, or Blackfish, Reducer, Kingsroad ).

Hekks 1

Those are some great tips, thank you! Im not sure about the Wraith opening though. You mean it can be good if he didnt use many cards in the setup?

Maybe we could play a game on Throneteki sometime? :)

Dydra 1467

The Wraiths in Their Midst opening is your default choice. You opt for something else in case specific conditions are in place ( i.e. he has 3-4 chuds on setup , or Varys's Riddle against a Wall deck so you fetch your Maester Aemon (Core) etc. etc. ).

If you have White Tree or/and A Meager Contribution this further improves the Wraiths. With fewer gold he would be able to play fewer cards on the field and thus keep a bunch to discard ( which is -3 reserve just from Agenda and Plot). Alternatively, if you don't have a lot of choke, he can decide to go all-out and play all cards he can so he stays in reserve ... you are also okey with this, because it opens him to a wipe with Varys. Once he has 2-3 cards in hand you flip Heads on Spikes on turn 2 and get value. =)

My ID on throneteki is the same, just the last time I played there the platform wasn't working so well with Night Gathers and Frostfangs and similar cards that goof around with control. :P

uBaH 89

@Von Wibble"Battle of Blackwater Bay worked well, letting me remove 2 dupes before using Varys and then playing out my opponents characters with dupes next turn." Just a reminder you can't dupe your opponents characters when you steal them. This also affects things like Lady-in-Waiting and Arya Stark (Core).

zack 126

How about Arry instead of Ygritte ? It's draw, and you can save it before a reset.

Dydra 1467

@zack yes and it can't be reduced by Ocean Road ... which already can reduce very few characters in the current list.

ShunSokaro 217

Hi Dydra !

  • No Craven/Poppy ? One of the goal is to wipe the board with Varys, so I imagine that Terminal attachments aren't the best, but if u don't see Varys / he gets blanked, or just if you need to stop a rush deck, isn't it a good add ? I saw you remove Poppy from your Stahleck version to this one, why ?

  • Only 2 Qhorin ? Doesn't he deserve x3 ?

zack 126

@ShunSokaro I've been playing with variants of this deck, and i was indeed wondering the same about Craven/Milk of the Poppy. Sometimes if you can't Varys for whatever reason, having some other way of gaining time in wait of a reset would really help. But then, space is tight...

Dydra 1467

@ShunSokaro similar to what @zack said deck slots are very tight, also from my personal experience ( with the previous version which had 3 milks ) the first card I cut when Isle of Ravens came out was exactly the milk. After that you end up running 2 milks ... not very consistent, you don't have any guarantee that you will draw them when you need them ( to stop some renown rush ) ... people running Confiscation so it's just a 1 turn, better to run Nightmares and you can blank buildings too =) Hence why Milk of the Poppy fell completely out of the list.

Qhorin Halfhand is pretty ok, but not worth it 3 times in this deck. For many reasons. First he is kinda expensive ( you want to pool gold for big Night Gathers... swings and he can't be reduced by Ocean Road ) and second you can't save him properly ( because only 1 Maester Aemon (Core) and no Close Call ). I'd even say that 1x should be the default choice, but just the occasional 1-2 power he steals, or the early aggro he allows for ( if opponent lacks good MIL icons ), or the way he makes opponent react with the Valar Morghulis .... can be too impactfull.

Dydra 1467

I'm about to write some article or/and make a short youtube vod on my initial thoughts of the deck with the NW box, because after putting together a few builds, I feel there is an important line to draw.

Aaron Groth 1

Appreciate the sharing of the knowledge Dydra

RDude 188

Any anticipations about your thoughts post NW box?

Dydra 1467

@RDude post NW box? I'm not from the "inner circle" that gets spoiled many stuff in advance, but looking at the 2nd chapter pack Guarding the Realm is nice and I think the design space they are going for is more of a control type, moving away from 30+ body count and focusing more into events.

I think this is where the design of this archetype is going, but we are far away from the consistent and fully working stage at which The Wall defense decks are in example.

I should record the vod tonight or tomorrow, promise that it will be straight and to the point. =)

BillyDooku 105

@DydraWhat's your youtube channel?

Interested in your thoughts on the direction this deck can take with the release of the NW box.

Dydra 1467

Okey peeps, I managed to finally sit down and record this ... it end up quite longer than expected. The good side is that I covered a lot stuff (including some sample setups ), rather than just the main idea.

Please expect:

1) No script, one-shot recording

2) Zero Editing

3) Late night recording

I hope you find it useful in some way =) youtu.be

P.s. should take a bit to finish the upload

Hekks 1

Thanks for the video! Really like the Stag deck and will try it first when I can get my hands on the cards :D

Dydra 1467

@Hekks cheers mate. I'm honestly not that happy with the quality ( of sound and flow of content ), but it was the best I could do right now ... just a crazy month for me

I'll do better for the next one ;)

Dydra 1467

If anyone is interested, I did several games today, and I can 100% confidently state that I was right and Now My Watch Begins doesn't fit in the deck well. I had 2x The Hand's Judgment out and 2x NMWB in, for testing purposes and although I won the majority of the games the new card is simply made for another type of discard engine. ( Queenscrown )

While it's easy to trigger, it makes you fall in the wrong strategy/mindset here and make you go first (while this deck wants you to go second more often than not ) even if you win initiative and don't trigger Queenscrown until Marshaling phase where you have the 2 gold to hit something. Again, while this is working it's not complementing the rest of the deck ( discard through Reserve choke or Varys resset ) and should be left out.

I might consider it as a 1x once the 3rd chapter pack is out and we have The Annals of Castle Black so it stay in the Discard for flexibility, but that's about the extent it can go in this Night Gathers deck.

On another note, I'd increase Queenscrown to 3x. The difference it makes if you have it on turn 1 or Setup is huge. I'll probably post my updated list soon.

Barnie25 222

@Dydrado you have an updated list for me? I want to run this at Dockside Saturday!

Dydra 1467

@Barnie25 message me on FB I'll send you a link with and without 2nd chapter pack ( as it makes some difference ).

RDude 188

@Dydra Hum I would gladly have a look at your 2nd chapter iteration could give it a try here in the italian meta soon. Whats your FB account? :)

Dydra 1467

I made a very short vid showcasing the type of openers you can do with 1.5 ( and above ), but I will release my latest list later, as I still have about 10 games with it.

www.youtube.com

P.s. OST is very epic ( feat my son :D )